MEECHAM PHILPOTT [HOST]: Okay, so I was talking about the Loopholes Bill just a second ago. Where are we up to with this with regards to Federal Parliament. If you’re a bit confused about the Loopholes Bill, you might know it, it kind of picked up the nickname through a campaign here as “Same Job, Same Pay”. Senator Anthony Chisholm is the Assistant Minister for Regional Development amongst other things. Senator, welcome to the program.

ANTHONY CHISHOLM [ASSISTANT MINISTER]: Thanks, Meech, good to be with you.

PHILPOTT: Absolutely. So where are we up to with the Loopholes Bill? It made it through Federal Parliament?

CHISHOLM: That’s correct, we were able to secure support for the legislation on the last sitting day of the year, so it’s been something that we’ve been working on for a number of months, and we were pleased to work constructively with other members of the Senate to be able to get this legislation done. We believe that it’s a really important part of, not only the platform that we took to the election, but also creating fairness for working people across Australia, and in particular in regional Queensland.

PHILPOTT: Okay. Did you get the support of the Opposition, as a matter of interest?

CHISHOLM: No, but that’s not unusual for them, they very rarely support legislation that’s going to help working people in my view, but this is something that we work constructively with the Greens, the Jacqui Lambie Network and David Pocock, to get this legislation passed.

PHILPOTT: Okay. So that’s through Parliament. What does that actually mean on the ground, Senator?

CHISHOLM: So, what this means on the ground is that we’ve had concerns for a number of years that we’ve seen labour hire being used to undermine conditions in employment and wages, particularly in blue-collar sectors, so mining, resources, energy, those sorts of projects. So, what this bill allows, is for the Fair Work Commission for an order that labour hire employees must be paid at least what they would receive under their employer’s enterprise agreement or equivalent public sector determination.

PHILPOTT: Okay.

CHISHOLM: So, it basically means you can’t have two people working side by side doing the same job, one an employee getting paid by the company on a good wage, and then next to that person you’ve got someone in labour hire who’s getting paid less. We don’t think that’s fair, we think it undermines the conditions at all workplaces, so we think this is an important step to just level that playing field and ensure that those people who are engaged in labour hire earn the same as those who are full‑time employees.

PHILPOTT: Okay. All right. Well, local terminology, we’d use the word “contractor”, and then a company shirt, for instance, so we’re talking on the same things here. Will the contractor, the labour hire person, will they get conditions along the lines of sick pay and holiday pay, and so forth, or will the loading that they get cover that?

CHISHOLM: It would depend on the different circumstances, but what this allows is for the Fair Work Commission to actually make an order that would actually deal with that.

PHILPOTT: Okay.

CHISHOLM: That for us is the important thing. You’ve got the independent umpire, so to speak, able to make those rulings that would ensure that there is fairness at workplaces.

PHILPOTT: Yeah, and see, that’s where it gets rather bizarre in that there’s been numerous cases, and probably the most famous one where we are is a the Skene case where, when this guy was working at one of the mines out there in the Highlands Coal Fields, and got his roster for the year, booked all his flights and everything, and it was shown that he was a contractor as such, but there is no doubt about it, he was a long‑term contractor, but just couldn’t get a company shirt, and then nothing really ever happened out of it. So, for a case like the Skene case, that would create change, because now it’s law. That’s the difference, is it?

CHISHOLM: And that’s exactly the type of thing that we want to fix, because that is someone who should be treated as an employee, if they’ve got that far in advance. So that’s exactly the issues that have been highlighted to us that we think are important to fix because they do undermine wages and conditions across the whole sector.

PHILPOTT: Yep, okay. Look, one of the things that’s rather interesting in the whole Loopholes Bill, we’re talking coal mines here at the moment, well, we’re talking resources because it happens right across the resourcing industry, but I note with great interest earlier in the week, the HIA is coming out and they’re a bit nervous about the Loopholes Bill because of subbies working on building sites, and so forth. Is the Loopholes Bill just for the resources industry, or is it right across all industry?

CHISHOLM: No, it potentially applies across all industry, but I suppose, Meech, the evidence that we’ve heard over the years, and it sounds like you’ve heard similar things as well, is that where it’s been more prevalent is its use in the resources sector, and I think that’s what was at the heart of our motivation, that, you know, we don’t think that is fair that it’s been used to undermine conditions that labour hire workers are being employed on. So, we don’t think that’s fair, and that was our motivation for this legislation about bringing fairness to the workplace.

PHILPOTT: Yeah, and fair enough. I hear what you’re saying there. But you’re not worried, for instance, that, you know, one size does not fit all in the Australian economic landscape. So, you fix a loophole within the resources sector, but then that creates problems in say hospitality and the building industry.

CHISHOLM: We understand that from time to time there might be a need for labour hire to be used to deal with a temporary spike in a workplace in terms of issues that they have to deal with, but it’s when you’ve got the person, as you mentioned before, who had his roster for the year and knew when and where he had to be, but was still being treated as labour hire. That’s not fair, and that’s something that needed to be fixed.

PHILPOTT: But on a building site, for instance, surely, you know, the guy that’s building the house, he’s the builder, and there’s probably – he’s got a handful of people for him – that when an electrician comes on site that’s working for that builder under this new Loopholes Bill, therefore, he’s got to have all the terms and conditions that the builder offers. But, I mean that would kill all our builders, wouldn’t it?

CHISHOLM: I don’t think that’s how it would apply in this circumstance.

PHILPOTT: Okay, yeah. Alright. Fair enough. Now on the ground, the Loopholes Bill, it’s been through Parliament. When does it get stamped, when does it become law, Senator?

CHISHOLM: It’s when the Governor‑General signs off on it, which if it hasn’t happened now, I’m sure that would be due to happen in the next week.

PHILPOTT: Okay, so we go into the new year with new laws.

CHISHOLM: Yep.

PHILPOTT: Okay. Look, I’ll leave it there this morning, Senator, I know you’ve got a few of these interviews lined up this morning, but thanks for your time this morning on ABC Tropical North in Capricornia.

CHISHOLM: No worries, thanks for your time.

PHILPOTT: Thank you. That’s Senator Anthony Chisholm, who is the Assistant Minister for Regional Development.

ENDS